I had not ever known how much time I would spend listening to podcasts, writing them, thinking about them or recording them. I had not foreseen this.
It wasn’t video that killed the radio star
I realised recently that I had, without consciously making the decision, stopped listening to Radio 4 with the regularity that I used to. I used to switch on at 6am and then listen again at lunch time and again in the evening as I was cooking, so always Today, PM, the news plus Woman’s Hour and often shows such as You and Yours or even Moneybox (and I hate thinking about money!) Then, life changed as I discovered the delights of podcasts and the choice, control and variety of listening experiences. Now I listen.A.Lot. I do listen to the radio as well but am more likely to listen to LBC, particularly James O’Brien. It is not just me that has made this move from Radio 4 to LBC, JO’B is now named - frequently by him - as one of the most influential journalists at the current time. I do like his podcast. More on James later.
Bang. Podcasts Exploded.
It seems that this is quite a common trend, not only the increase in listeners on LBC but the explosion of podcasts. I do feel a little bit sorry for Radio 4 in the sense that they have been producing really high quality programmes for over 100 years and they do not deserve this level of abandonment. On the other hand, they have made a fairly slick move to the podcast genre themselves and, consequently, I do still sometimes listen to Woman’s Hour - though not with the regularity that I used to.
What did you say?
Current affairs coverage has become much more interesting in the Podcast world. I used to find myself feeling quite angry listening to The Today programme. I do not think it was particularly doing anyone any good. Journalists were becoming more aggressive and, consequently, politicians more defensive and building expertise in strategies of evading a question. The same thing is happening with all the heavily regulated broadcasters and their obligations to be balanced but people can share open views and opinions on a podcast - and they can laugh and swear and declare things a ‘load of crap’ and say ‘fuck off’ and it just makes it all more human, real and relatable. When I listen to Emily Maitlis now, for example, on the News Agents, I just wish she had been free to be herself like that on Newsnight - not that she always held back, I remember her telling Matt Hancock to ‘park the unicorns’. However, the teasing and witty exchange between Lewis, Sopples and Maitlis is like overhearing an intelligent conversation in the pub rather than the formality required by a BBC broadcast. They, between them, know so much about politics and they also share, openly, their particular journalistic take on what it means as a story and insight into the world of press and political reporting and analysis in a way that could not really have been done on TV.
The Fairness of the Pod
This brings me on to another point about podcasts; they are so democratic in the sense that indie pop music is - or self-publishing for that matter. There are no power-wielding people who control the purse-strings having editorial control over what constitutes content. The gatekeepers have largely had to go and retrain. Podcasts can be done on the cheap by anyone at all. The fact that some of the podcasts that I listen to are very widely listened to, well-produced in professional studios and generate decent incomes aside, it is possible to hear many more voices and make available a wide range of views. The voice of the wealthy, privately-educated white man has been dominant for too long. It may be the case that, just as with the arts and music, the public school kids are still more prevalent than their majority state school peers - but the chance to be heard is better than ever before. It is worth thinking about how to extend this further and avoid the seizing of the reigns by the well-resourced, if such a feat is possible.
Just like God
The Church would claim that God is available to anyone, rich or poor. Pod cannot quite make that claim yet but anyone with a bit of tech; a smart-phone, an iPad or a laptop and internet access can record and post a podcast. The software that this can be used on is normally free to download and you can publish so that Apple pick it up (and it then follows that most other podhosts will too) can happen. It still helps if you can afford great equipment and studios and get advertising and a company to distribute and publicise it - but you do not HAVE to have that. With regard to accessibility for all, I wonder if public buildings such as libraries and churches and village halls could offer studio space for those who want to get their experience out there.
There are podcasts about podcasts
I was amused, when I was looking into this a bit more, to see the number of podcasts about podcasting - I wondered whether there was a risk about them imploding. But the important part of the story here is that you can podcast about anything. Niche interests are available. It still helps to have a public school background, an Oxbridge education and friends in media-world. Take Elizabeth Day’s podcast, which I really enjoy, by the way, and she fits the bill and she had Richard Osman on her podcast recently. I asked Richard Osman to have a very quick chat for my podcast - I did not get a reply. However, we have had some really good writers, academics and broadcasters - all who helped us out without a fee. So, we have benefited from some really good expertise, willingly shared.
Money and connections not required, but they may help
It’s fair to say that those with money and connections will do better at things that benefit from money and connections - which are most things - but the important point is that you can do it anyway. Your voice can be put out there, your views shared and your ideas put into the public domain - ok, maybe not on the size and scale of those with more resources available but it is, as the saying goes, better than nothing.
Decisions, decisions
When choosing which podcasts to listen to, there are no rules. You can use searches or recommendations, charts or reviews. Anything, really. Spotify, for example, will play similar material to other podcasts you listen to if you just leave it running overnight as I frequently do (not to be recommended for healthy sleep patterns - and, yes, of course there is a podcast on that).
My top listens
I had a quick look at what I have favourited or listened to a lot and these are a few of them:
I have already mentioned my top favourite: The News Agents. I am so keen to hear the latest episode of this, I have started going to bed much earlier than I used to in order to listen. My next favourite is The Rest is Politics. In this one, I like the frequency, the dynamic between Alastair Campbell and Rory Stewart, their collective expertise, the level of their analysis and knowledge and their considered approach. It’s not as dramatic or funny as the News Agents but it is absorbing, nonetheless.
I realised that I listen to quite a few podcasts concerned with history: You’re Dead to Me - which is a humorous take on historical matters in which the host, Greg Jenner, discusses a historical figure with an expert and a comedian. It is a bit like Horrible Histories for grown ups without as many songs. Lady Killers with Lucy Worsley is as fun as most programmes by Lucy Worsley - a human take on history with an emphasis on women. In this podcast it concerns criminal cases about women. I think the appeal for me, as a former lawyer, is that the bit about law I enjoyed was the research and historical side of it. This podcast goes into what can be discovered through exploration of a wide range of material to put together a case/story. I also enjoy The Rest is History and History Extra mainly because of my fascination with story - so I find background stories utterly absorbing. This is normally what I use podcasts for. It’s to get into the state of Flow where I am interested in an idea and absorbed by it at a level that has a suitable level of challenge and fascination with the subject matter.
For a similar reason, although reluctant to go for another (in fact one of the same) white public school boys, I enjoy Rory Stewart’s The Long History of….in which he discusses and examines ideas and the history of them - delving into matters of politics, law, psychology and philosophy. Unlike Robbie Williams, he’s not sick and tired of thinking about thinking.
Until I started listening to podcasts, I did not know quite how many ideas I find absorbing and fascinating. I suppose the clue may have been in the fact that I have spent ten years of my adult life at University and that I really enjoy ideas that podcasts and the breadth and depth of ideas and discussions available appeal to me so much.
My husband, on the other hand, uses podcasts for a different - although related - purpose. He listens to A LOT of podcasts about rugby. Whilst the subject matter is different to my favourites, it is about an absorbing level of a subject matter that interests him - he loves hearing about all expert views of his preferred sport and the variety of different approaches and concerns of those involved in it - to a level that could never have been explored on TV.
Back to the politics, I also enjoy Electoral Dysfunction - particularly the female focus of women working in politics and journalism. Pod Save the UK, American Friction, The Bunker, Not Another One and The Rest is Politics US are also on my regular listens.
Death
I am partial, also to a bit of intrigue and mystery and to that end, I like Uncanny from BBC Sounds which involves interviewing people who believe they have had encounters with the supernatural. I am open to other spooky tales as well. But not too late at night.
There are other human stories that I appreciate; the brilliant, hilarious and compassionate Kathy Burke talking to people about their funerals/death - Where there’s a Will there’s a Wake. This is an interesting take on discussing life - by focusing on death. I am of the view that it would be better for everyone to be less scared about dying and accept what Forrest Gump’s mum said ‘dying is a part of life’. I wonder, sometimes, if that is why I find history so interesting - to consider the stories of people that have gone before us and the appreciation that although their lives are over, their influence and significance continues.
Failure
In other podcasts that affirm my own world view, I enjoy How to Fail with Elizabeth Day - as fear of failure is another issue that I have views on. Is there a theme emerging here - am I averse to fear, I wonder? I like the honesty and celebratory nature of her podcast about life being a learning process of trial and error.
It made me realise that my strongest interests are politics, history and stories about people. I do not really listen to many psychology podcasts - although, arguably, everything is psychology - the things that people do, say, decide and reflect on are all full of interesting psychological concepts.
I listen to a lot of audio books as well - and whilst most of them are novels, there is quite a lot of psychology content in them.
Don’t let it ruin your Mindfulness Opportunities
Arguably, podcasts can be used for learning whilst doing other things. I am not that keen on their use for this for several reasons. ‘Mindless’ tasks have a meditative, mindful quality - walking, especially, gives you the chance to engage with and be aware of your surroundings and environment. Even things like washing up or waiting for the kettle to boil can give you the chance to ground yourself, allow your thoughts to process and breathe. We do not need constant input. We do need time where we are not trying to take in more information. That said, I am going to tidy my bedroom later and I will be listening to a podcast. Probably about books. Mainly so that I don’t order the books that I hear being discussed. In that regard, I like the History of Literature podcast, Read Learn Live host Jon Menaster considers with an author how their writing process works, the how and the why of the book itself, and how that impacts upon our experience of life. Oh, there is also some rather good podcast about books called She Wrote Too.
Deep Dive
For some reason, I do not like the phrase ‘deep dive’, preferring all sorts of alternatives such as careful consideration or considered examination or close scrutiny - to give a few examples. I realise that this is my problem. I have an issue with the over-use of the word ‘goals’ as well so maybe I just do not like sporting analogies. However, podcasts are good for real engagement with a subject that would not, for example, attract TV time. So, maybe they are just lazier versions of books or academic papers - the ultimate way to investigate a topic properly.
James O’Brien - is he or is he not my friend?
The sense of friendship from podcasts. Just what is it about radio and podcasts that feels like a personal relationship? This is what brings me back to James O’Brien and his LBC radio show. Sometimes, I have to remind myself that he is not talking to me in my car in my kitchen but a very wide audience. I have phoned and spoken to him on the show three times. I frequently WhatsApp or tweet him about a point he has raised or is talking about. He is not one of my friends - and yet something about the audio media creates that notion. Or, at least, it does in my mind. James O’Brien is not my friend. (Surely, he is, surely).
When it comes to Women, podcasts ARE your friend.
Podcasts have given women a space to share their unique experiences, expertise, and stories without the constraints of traditional media. Female podcasters can talk about any of their interests without any of the pressure that women have historically felt to look a certain way on television. Thank you, Mary Beard, for not complying - and the growing number of women who refuse to look like ‘tv woman’ - and for dealing with the criticism and abuse that goes with that.
Along this vein, women have often been underrepresented in mainstream media - partly for the appearance issue but also the sexism hangover from our culture. There is more work to be done on this as men still dominate the podcast arena but, even as it is, it enables women from different backgrounds to express their stories and broadcast them to a global audience.
During the covid period, we became more used to people broadcasting from their homes and phones and I suspect that it made more acceptable to hear voices without perfect production and impeccable sound.
Podcasts have seen explosive growth over the past decade, becoming one of the most popular forms of media globally.
Wealth of Content
There has been an explosion of content. In 2013, there were around 250,000 podcasts. Today, there are over 4 million podcasts and it is growing daily, another favourite of mine actually called itself Not Another One.
Long live the podcast: diverse, democratic and dynamic.
One of the podcasts that I co-host is She Wrote Too - not surprisingly, it is about women writers of the past who deserve to be read, celebrated and remembered. You can subscribe on your favourite podcast platform and join us on social media on Facebook, Instagram and BlueSky. Please, do join us and be part of the podcast adventure.